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Interview starts at the 16:49 mark
JEREMY MAGGS: Now, it’s a classic South African policy stumble. First the ban, then the backlash, now the backtrack. After a wave of public outrage, government has reversed its decision to ban cannabis-infused food products. But while the regulators are scrambling, entrepreneurs have been holding the line.
In that respect, I want to talk to Vanessa Jarvis-Findlay, founder of NEKED Cannabis Café, to unpack what all of this means for the business of cannabis and maybe pushing into the future where the real growth lies.
So, Vanessa, a very warm welcome. Maybe a good starting point for us is to take us inside your business. How did this proposed ban initially reflect on your business when you heard about it?
VANESSA JARVIS-FINDLAY: Hi, Jeremy. Thank you for the opportunity. I always love the platform to speak about this wonderful medicine. So, me personally, when we received the news, it didn’t really affect me too much because as one of South Africa’s very first cannabis cafés, already I’m operating in the grey.
Listen/read: SA’s cannabis industry blindsided by sudden ban
So I adopted international standards, which is responsible adult use, and that is that you have to prove that you’re over the age of 18 to be able to purchase medicine from me and also that you have had a consultation with one of my qualified cannabis consultants so that you are having the right dosage and so on.
When the news came in, I was a little bit shook because I thought, oh my goodness, we’ve taken a few steps back again.
However, to be quite frank, I didn’t take the product off the shelves because I had so many customers phoning me, stressing out that they weren’t going to have their medicine.
Stressing out about what are they going to do for their pain. What are they going to do for their XYZ. As a cannabis activist myself, I decided to just continue operating the way I am, to international standards, and that’s with a responsible adult use protocol.
JEREMY MAGGS: Vanessa, do you think there was a misunderstanding then by government as to exactly what cannabis cafés are doing?
VANESSA JARVIS-FINDLAY: Jeremy, for me, there are two stories to this because first of all, let’s just understand something, alcohol is linked to over three million deaths globally each year. Tobacco kills more than eight million people annually. Cannabis, fewer than 100 direct deaths per year globally and most of those are contested or they involve pre-existing conditions or mixed substances.
So why is there this disproportionate crackdown on cannabis and why so little regulation around bottle stores and liquor adverts and cigarette sales, while cannabis cafés, wellness products, and medicinal access are restricted, criminalised, and often vilified even.
It’s not about public health, Jeremy, I believe this is about protecting revenue. We’ve got big players, we’ve got the pharma factor, we’ve got the tobacco industry, and we’ve got the alcohol industry, and I think they are influencing our government.
JEREMY MAGGS: What did your customers say to you, Vanessa? They must have felt alarmed as well.
VANESSA JARVIS-FINDLAY: They were stressed. Literally the phones did not stop ringing, we were inundated with calls.
Look, thank you so much, I had a great week, for the last 10 days business has been fantastic because there’s panic buying.
However, we are doing our very best. We are writing blogs; we always educate our members. Everybody needs to sign up to become a member of our private social club and we educate them as much as we provide really good medicine. We’ve just been keeping them abreast of what has been going on. Also, I have been quite adamant that I will continue to stand and sell my products in my store under responsible adult use protocol.
JEREMY MAGGS: What do you think this kind of regulatory flip-flop does though to what is obviously a growing retail sector and you’re trying to build trust and consistency?
VANESSA JARVIS-FINDLAY: This is not good for any industry. I doubt that any other industry would be so pushed around and bullied, like we are. Literally, this is my next call to action is that we’ve got to remove it, remove cannabis from, some of the laws are so outdated, some of the laws are still saying that it’s illegal. So we need to remove some of these laws. We’ve really got to unpack everything again.
We need to have transparent conversations. This is what’s also happening. We can’t just have the big players behind closed doors discussing our industry. I understand that we are a threat.
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We are a huge threat to the other industries because we are providing a natural user-driven alternative and it’s low cost. So with more people choosing cannabis over opioids, sleeping pills, anti-inflammatories, antidepressants, big pharma, understandably, is rattled.
Tobacco, kids aren’t smoking cigarettes anymore. They’d rather have a joint or they’d have a THC [tetrahydrocannabinol] vape pen. So you mentioned that you’re a baby boomer, but some of our oldest customers are in their 80s and 90s, and that’s been so huge for us to change stigma there and propaganda and the misinformation that they’ve received.
But I think sometimes people have an issue with cannabis until their life depends on it. I’m a cancer survivor. I’m here today because of cannabis. I’ve seen how many thousands of patients and customers I’ve helped, and what the plant can do.
So for me, we’ve got a constitutional right to privacy, which is why we have the private social cannabis club, and then also we have a right to heal ourselves with whatever we choose, with any natural substance that we choose.
So there are lots of things that need to be put onto the table to be discussed, Jeremy. I’m so happy that these conversations have been opened and started now, but now it’s time for all the entrepreneurs to get together, all the chefs, all the sangomas, the traditional healers, the growers, the patients. Let’s form these councils, like for instance, the liquor board governs the liquor stores.
We need a cannabis board that can also come out and check that all of these dispensaries like mine are actually dispensing the correct medicine, it’s clearly marked, it’s got the right dosage.
I understand why the health minister [Aaron Motsoaledi] got scared because there’s also a terrible culture at the moment of tricking people into having an edible. So because they look like sweets, for instance, we often hear it in our shop, people come in and say, oh, please, can I have a sweetie, I want to give it to my mom, or I want to give it to my husband, and we refuse to.
JEREMY MAGGS: I want to give it to my child, I think is the concern because the health minister saying that he gazetted these regulations because he wanted to protect children who ate them, whether accidentally or intentionally. Does he have a point?
VANESSA JARVIS-FINDLAY: Correct. I totally agree with him. This is why I feel that we need to regulate this industry, and we need to have a governing board, like the liquor board does and so on because not everybody is as conscious as what I am.
I’m a conscious entrepreneur. This medicine has saved my life and kept my family alive as well. So this is so personal for me. So for me, I am adamant. Also, I personally can’t consume edibles. I can smoke, but I can’t consume them. It gives me a bit of psychosis. I don’t want to have psychosis.
So can you imagine somebody who doesn’t even know what they’ve taken, Jeremy, now they take an accidental sweetie and two hours later they feel like they are losing their minds because they don’t know what to expect.
JEREMY MAGGS: Vanessa, when you talk about pressure being put on government, you referenced big pharma and the alcohol industry. Is that anecdotal or do you have proof that that is actually happening?
VANESSA JARVIS-FINDLAY: More and more evidence is starting to reveal itself. Who is funding all these anti-cannabis campaigns? Who funds the police force, the R1 million or R2 million they need to come and crack down on cannabis cafés, who is funding all of this? Our government doesn’t have the allocation for these funds for our police force.
You’ve got to start asking these questions. I don’t only think it’s myself that’s saying this, if you speak to anybody.
It’s not in their best interest. Cannabis was always our medicine, Jeremy. It’s only in the last 90 years that it’s been vilified, demonised, the propaganda around it.
This is so that big pharma could step in and never ever have we as human beings been sicker in the last 90 years because of big pharma.
JEREMY MAGGS: Vanessa, I’m going to leave it there, but the debate is certainly flying once again. That’s Vanessa Jarvis-Findlay, founder of NEKED Cannabis Café. I appreciate your time and your honesty today. Thank you so much.
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